English > Feature Suggestions
Integrated Help Forum
CAD:
If it how I imagine it working, i think it will soon become unwieldy.
As a starting point perhaps you could create an index in a forum post with some potential help topics (which you can pin) - This would act as the pvd index and we can create posts to links.
--- Quote ---but you're dismissing the proposal without due consideration.
--- End quote ---
I think it is unfair to say I am dismissing this without consideration. But if it was as easy as you say, it would have been done many times over.
That said...
Please create a psuedo help index with some basic entries. we can link off and we can trial your suggestion.
A help system is sorely missing from PVD and would be of great benefit to many users.
Look forward to seeing something in the pipeline soon...
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---If it how I imagine it working, i think it will soon become unwieldy.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps you could tell us what it is you're imagining. There's nothing unwieldy about what I'm suggesting. On the contrary, the main point is its simplicity.
--- Quote ---But if it was as easy as you say, it would have been done many times over.
--- End quote ---
The fact that nostra has not yet implemented the necessary help system (i.e., the code that would call a help file from the program) in no way implies what I'm suggesting is not dirt simple.
--- Quote ---Please create a psuedo help index with some basic entries. we can link off and we can trial your suggestion.
--- End quote ---
I have no idea what you're getting at or why this would be necessary. You participate enough here to understand how the forum software works. When I say this system would have one forum topic for each topic in the help file, you understand perfectly what I mean. So imagine a "help index" like this one in the wiki (it's not how I would do it, but it's an illustration), and each one of those links going to a forum topic instead of a wiki topic. The first topic in a Help forum could be an exact duplicate of the table of contents (i.e., "help index") of of the help file. This would give an identical point of entry to the help topics whether accessing them via the help file or the forum directly.
--- Quote ---Look forward to seeing something in the pipeline soon...
--- End quote ---
You're not going to goad me into creating even the beginnings of a Help forum. This is a trial balloon. If there's no interest in the idea, then I'm perfectly happy to let it die. If what you really need to see is a prototype of a help file, I posted one in the In Line Help topic. The links in that file go to the wiki, but it still serves to illustrate how the help file works. And there are a few forum topics included at the end.
patch:
--- Quote from: CAD on August 31, 2010, 01:53:13 am ---
--- Quote ---Configuring the wiki (or any alternative wiki) to be "more PVD centric" (whatever that means) does nothing to address the issue.
--- End quote ---
I disagree. I have had great success with developing a wiki in at work. It does need to be focused on its purpose for existing and needs someone to take ownership and drive it.
--- Quote ---more PVD centric" (whatever that means)
--- End quote ---
I mean by this, all the crap needs to be removed and content focused on PVD.
IMO -The wiki focus should be more of a Content Management System with wiki features.
--- End quote ---
+1
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---the help file would only contain links from the program hooks to topics in a forum. They would be organized in a hierarchical manner—a table of contents.
--- End quote ---
I see some flaws here:
* someone needs to maintain the links in the forum
* multiple posts would need to be maintained.
* users would need to wade through multiple posts to fin the information they are after.
Document management is always contentious. No one like writing "how to" doco.
From experience, I think a wiki style system would work. it needs to be focused and have features to do other stuff (like act as a CMS, produce pdfs etc). The forum still exists to discuss and fix etc, but when a solution is found, all the discussion is removed and the core solution is added to the wiki.
--- End quote ---
+1
Having the primary entry into the wiki pointing to the contents page would go a way to fixing the current one. Better still if a search box was added to it.
The Forum is the best way of exploring new or difficult issues. It is easiest to create as it is just a record of conversations by those who choose to converse that way.
A wiki produces a more readable reference document. Enabling new users to go straight to the current preferred answer on documented subjects and anyone who feels the current documentation could be improved can directly fix it. It does however require a conscious effort to contribute to PVD documentation and some effort to maintain the structure / contents page.
A help index goes some way to bridging the gap but is not as good (from a readers perspective) as a wiki table of contents and the referenced forum threads are not as good as an equivalent wiki page.
CAD:
--- Quote ---Perhaps you could tell us what it is you're imagining.
--- End quote ---
What i'm imagining is a help file built into pvd - called by either f1 opens a help fiile with a list of hyperlinks or a questionmark "?" that you click and then click on the thing you want help with. The hyperlink takes you to the relevant pvd forum topic.
eg "How to use inline help" url takes you to http://www.videodb.info/forum_en/index.php?topic=1692.msg7764#msg7764
"Is this not what you are advocating?
--- Quote ---The fact that nostra has not yet implemented the necessary help system (i.e., the code that would call a help file from the program) in no way implies what I'm suggesting is not dirt simple.
--- End quote ---
If it works as outlined above. Any page with as list of hyperlinks can act as the index. when nostra implements it inside pvd, it is a simple matter of porting existing links into whatever he creates.
--- Quote ---You're not going to goad me into creating even the beginnings of a Help forum.
--- End quote ---
Not trying to goad you into anything. But i would like to see a small trial to see if it would work in principle. As you are the moderator and it is your idea, you would be the most suitable candidate to put something up with the vision of how you see it.
--- Quote ---You participate enough here to understand how the forum software works
--- End quote ---
Yes and this is why I don't think it is an adequate tool for a help system. Unless the moderator (you) reads every single post in a topic and takes relevant info out and puts it into 1st post, then users have to read through potential crap to get to the bit that explains how to do something and it means a lot of work for moderator (you) in editing posts.
rick.ca:
--- Quote from: patch on August 31, 2010, 11:58:00 am ---Having the primary entry into the wiki pointing to the contents page would go a way to fixing the current one. Better still if a search box was added to it.
--- End quote ---
As I've already said, the purpose of this topic is to discuss a completely different alternative to wikis. If you would like to discuss how to fix the wiki, please start another topic.
This does, however, illustrate the need for an alternative. The author of the wiki recognized the need for this "entry point" into the wiki. But then he abandoned the project before completing this after thought. If the wiki were being used and anyone interested in contributing to it, someone would have finished what he started.
--- Quote ---A help index goes some way to bridging the gap but is not as good (from a readers perspective) as a wiki table of contents and the referenced forum threads are not as good as an equivalent wiki page.
--- End quote ---
What is your point? This has little to do with what I'm proposing. On the contrary, I'm proposing the help material be properly indexed using a help file (in fact, I'm proposing a help file that consists of nothing but links to help topics), and that the forum help topics be the exact equivalent (wrt content) of a wiki page. The only difference is the forum help topic will allow discussion of the topic immediately following the help content (the first message). This makes it clearly better than a wiki, and easier to use for both users and moderators.
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