English > Feature Suggestions
Reviving the Wiki
CAD:
--- Quote ---You can't do a proper TOC like this one in a menu bar,
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i like what you've done. Just what i had in mind. - Links to high level content.
--- Quote ---any link on the wiki that directly or indirectly suggests home ("Home", "Personal Video Database," "PVD," etc.) should link back here
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Already does. any that i missed - let me know and i can (or you can) ;) fix.
--- Quote ---The wiki is for those who are already users of the software.
--- End quote ---
I don't entirely agree - i think wiki would be for new users learning about the software, features what it can do, learning the basics etc.
Those who have used it for a while and have questions come here to the forums.
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---I don't entirely agree - i think wiki would be for new users learning about the software, features what it can do, learning the basics etc. Those who have used it for a while and have questions come here to the forums.
--- End quote ---
If they are "new users learning about..." then they're users, aren't they? And it's up to them to decide where they want to be. My point is the wiki must not pretend to be a second home for PVD. It's sole purpose is to provide help documentation for users of PVD. Users of PVD don't need a second introduction or sales pitch. Give them what they're looking for—without the bullshit.
If a non-user's first introduction to the software is the wiki, they deserve to know it's limited purpose, and where to find the actual "home" of the application. Some will stay, as reviewing help documentation is often a good way to determine whether a program will suit one's needs, while also giving a indication of it's quality. So all the more reason to keep the wiki clean, professional and focused on it's purpose.
I've made a few minor changes to the wiki that are, more or less, based on this idea. I put links to "PVD Home" and "PVD Support" at the top of the menu list. I don't care if they stay there, if there's a better way to "integrate" the two sites. I removed a few of the "fluff" features that add nothing to it's main function. I was tempted to remove the forum as well, but editors may want to use that to communicate with one another on wiki matters.
A great illustration of why I'm fussy about this...The wiki originally hosted the program installation file. This was an extraordinarily bad idea. If it wasn't a perfect mirror of what was here (and I don't believe it was) it could only be a source of potential trouble. Even if a new user got a good file, they would be deprived of the knowledge of the location of the official file archive (here). My fix for this was very simple—I removed the file hosting capability of the wiki.
--- Quote ---i like what you've done. Just what i had in mind. - Links to high level content.
--- End quote ---
What did I do? My suggestion was to use a TOC as the main component of the wiki home page. That's something functional that every visitor needs. So cut the bullshit and give it to them!
BTW, you may want to clarify the likely future of the wiki with nostra before investing a lot of time in it. It's currently running like a ghost ship—hosted by someone we've had no contact with (AFAIK) for over a year. I would want to know what would happen to the wiki if the plug were pulled. I think it would be rather presumptuous to assume nostra would recreate it elsewhere. Aside from finding it ineffective and a PITA to maintain, this is why I was trying to discuss an alternative.
patch:
--- Quote from: rick.ca on September 03, 2010, 04:36:24 am ---
--- Quote ---I don't entirely agree - i think wiki would be for new users learning about the software, features what it can do, learning the basics etc. Those who have used it for a while and have questions come here to the forums.
--- End quote ---
If they are "new users learning about..." then they're users, aren't they? And it's up to them to decide where they want to be. My point is the wiki must not pretend to be a second home for PVD. It's sole purpose is to provide help documentation for users of PVD. Users of PVD don't need a second introduction or sales pitch. Give them what they're looking for—without the bullshit.
--- End quote ---
A wiki is a community maintained reference document. Ideally suite to cover basic and advance features of software.
Putting various forms of help documentation is sensible. Help documentation would normally start with a program overview so that could be added as well. Basically anything the community could reasonably expect to maintain.
Of course breaking copyright without permission is unwise, especially with nostra.
--- Quote ---I've made a few minor changes to the wiki that are, more or less, based on this idea. I put links to "PVD Home" and "PVD Support" at the top of the menu list. I don't care if they stay there, if there's a better way to "integrate" the two sites. I removed a few of the "fluff" features that add nothing to it's main function. I was tempted to remove the forum as well, but editors may want to use that to communicate with one another on wiki matters.
--- End quote ---
Four links on the wiki home page to http://www.videodb.info/forum_en/ is just silly.
imo we do not need 2 PVD forum. wiki suport can be done here. While it is true the multi lingual support is better with the wiki software that applies to all PVD communication.
--- Quote from: rick.ca on September 03, 2010, 04:36:24 am ---BTW, you may want to clarify the likely future of the wiki with nostra before investing a lot of time in it. It's currently running like a ghost ship—hosted by someone we've had no contact with (AFAIK) for over a year. I would want to know what would happen to the wiki if the plug were pulled. I think it would be rather presumptuous to assume nostra would recreate it elsewhere. Aside from finding it ineffective and a PITA to maintain, this is why I was trying to discuss an alternative.
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Yep we know you do not like the wiki rick and would like it to die.
However your Integrated Help Forum is not an alternative. Sure it will give the moderators / thread originators power trip but it will do nothing to encourage community participation in the arduous documentation task, and users will be left to wade through crap to find their answers. Forums and wiki have different strengths and weaknesses. They can compliment each other well.
buah:
What we miss at the moment in any form is what I call "Undocumented or "hidden" but very powerful PVD features". Maybe it would be good to establish a separate board for this, just for the start?
And I mean here on things like keyboard shortcuts, multiple editing, working with operators in advanced search, various commands in context menus, etc, etc...
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---A wiki is a community maintained reference document. Ideally suite to cover basic and advance features of software.
Putting various forms of help documentation is sensible. Help documentation would normally start with a program overview so that could be added as well. Basically anything the community could reasonably expect to maintain.
--- End quote ---
I think we all know what a wiki is. What has this got to do with the simple point I was making?
--- Quote ---Of course breaking copyright without permission is unwise, especially with nostra.
--- End quote ---
What are you talking about? Where is the copyright issue in this?
--- Quote ---Four links on the wiki home page to http://www.videodb.info/forum_en/ is just silly.
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Are you suggesting I delete CAD's work while it's in progress? As I explained, I made a few simple changes to the menu to illustrate a possibility. I suppose as the "wiki-hater" I should stay out of it, but it's something only an administrator can do.
--- Quote ---imo we do not need 2 PVD forum. wiki suport can be done here.
--- End quote ---
Fortunately for those who may need it, I don't listen to your advice.
--- Quote ---Yep we know you do not like the wiki rick and would like it to die.
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My, how pathetically judgmental of you. ::)
--- Quote ---Sure it will give the moderators / thread originators power trip but it will do nothing to encourage community participation in the arduous documentation task, and users will be left to wade through crap to find their answers.
--- End quote ---
Nonsense. I presented a perfectly sound proposal of which encouraging community participation and making the whole process easier and more efficient were the cornerstones. You made this silly claims before, and then failed to support them. It seemed you couldn't even be bothered to read what I had written. It's a proposal for an alternative to the wiki. You don't have to agree with it. I'm not sure I do. But there are very good reasons for considering alternatives. All you're demonstrating here is that you don't have the capacity to consider such things.
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