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Scan folders/file scanner confusion
patch:
--- Quote ---Could you describe your tasks and working environment more precisely, so I can imagine what changes need to be done.
--- End quote ---
With pleasure
Movie files are stored on a file server and accessed by multiple users / computers within the home.
PVD is an excellent way of selecting a movie to watch so I would like to use it on each computer on the network.
Setting up PVD on each computer requires "Scan folders for new movies" and pointing it at the file server.
Doing this the first time is labour intensive as I need to manually check each imdb and Graphics/Amazon link.
Doing it from subsequently computers could be fully automated (which would make PVD network friendly)
Probably the easiest way to achieve this is if PVD had "*.id3" export and import formats.
Export *.id3 would write a file to the same directory as each movie on the hard disk, using an identical name but .id3 file extension.
The id3 file would contain at least the imdb link, but preferably other generic fields (eg graphics or link to Amazon, but not individual user data such as their rating & if they have watched the movie).
During "Scan folders for new movies" PVD would then look for an .id3 file. If found it could add the movie without user intervention, making the "Scan folders for new movies" 100% accurate from a new computer or user account.
In an ideal world the id3 tag information could be appended to the movie data file, similar to mp3 music file. Unfortunately I suspect .avi does not support it http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms779636(VS.85).aspx and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats I believe some of the later movie file formats support Metadata /Tags, so this may happen in the future, but in the mean time a separate file would achieve the same end.
Interestingly this program appears to put similar information within .avi files http://www.exefind.com/abcavi-tag-editor-P21011.html
I thought I read somewhere that it does it by putting the information within unallocated blocks within the file but I could be wrong. Actually I don't want to distract you as an external file is probably easier and would achieve the functionality I'm after.
BTW
id3 file format is not critical, I just choose it as it is relatively standard and currently stores similar information. A .xml files would probably work just as well.
nostra:
OK, I understand.
One question: would it not be much better and easier if you install a database server on your Server PC and have a single PVD database on the server as well that is accessed by all the users in the network.
I plan to implement this in the next major update and it is much easier for me to implement than id3-like export/import.
P.S. the server can run on windows or linux. (Firebird)
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---Has writing cataloguing data back to the movie files been considered...
--- End quote ---
When I first read this, I found the idea appealing. It would offer greater peace-of-mind PVD would not be "confused," should I move or rename movie files. I'm trying out Media Center, and one of my disappointments is I cannot import PVD data into it. Probably just as well—I don't want to be maintaining two databases. But if PVD could write back to the movie files, I suspect MC would read the information automatically. In stark contrast, I've always maintained my music information in ID3 tags, and all of it is seamlessly available in whatever software I choose to use.
I'm not familiar with the tagging convention, but a lot of meta information can be saved in AVI files. I imagine the first issue here is MediaInfo (the DLL PVD uses to get information from movie files) only reads, does not write information. So nostra would have to figure out how to do that. And what about other file formats? While writing only to AVI's for this limited purpose may not be difficult, it opens the door to what could be a major new feature that would probably not be easy to support: What about other programs using the same information? Being able to get my PVD information into MC would be great, for example, but what would PVD do when MC wrote its version of the information back to the tags?
--- Quote ---Movie files are stored on a file server and accessed by multiple users / computers within the home...
--- End quote ---
I suppose each user would want to maintain their own database, but based on the same store of movies on the server. Nevertheless, would it not make sense to built a "master" database of all movies on the server? Then each user could start with a copy of that, and delete the movies they're not interested in.
--- Quote ---Probably the easiest way to achieve this is if PVD had "*.id3" export and import formats.
--- End quote ---
I thought ID3 was for music only. Much of the information is the same, but does it provide for tags unique to movies? I suppose a tagging convention—if that's what it is—doesn't necessarily address the issue of how such tags are included in various file types. Thus your suggestion the information could be saved to separate files. I've never come across anything, however, that would suggest other programs could make use of information saved this way. Even if this works for your specific purpose, saving the information in the movie files removes the risk of the files getting separated.
patch:
--- Quote from: nostra on June 20, 2008, 03:05:33 am ---One question: would it not be much better and easier if you install a database server on your Server PC and have a single PVD database on the server as well that is accessed by all the users in the network.
--- End quote ---
A server version would definately help with some but not all of what I'm trying to acheive.
It would allow multiple users to access the PVD on the file server :)
The difficulties I would have are:
1) The "File server" in my case is just a PC with large hard disks which are shared over the network. People log in to multiple accounts to use it as a PC, so it would not be easy to ensure the server version of PVD was running, and running only once.
2) File storage updates. I regularly need to buy more hard disk space, which often results in the path to some of the movie directories changing. If the basic movie description data is stored with the movie file then PVD rescan is virtually garanteed to accurately update it's database (even if I needed to open a new database & scan in the file server again). With a server version I'm not as confident server configuration updates would go as smoothly.
3) When we go on holidays it is nice to bring a laptop +/- an external drive with some movies. If PVD supported tagging I could effectively bring it too, as setting it up for the new configuration would be trivial.
To illustrate how it could work, I can describe how audio is handled
I digitise my music, tag it, and put it on the file server (resulting in key track data being stored with the sound data).
Media Monkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediamonkey is configured to rescan the file server directories on startup.
So any new music is available to everyone at home.
As each user runs their own copy of Media monkey, they also have personalised data such as ratings, play lists, last played & frequency etc. (Some users even still persist with iTunes or Winamp)
I would like to achieve a similar thing with my movies, hopefully through PVD.
--- Quote from: rick.ca on June 20, 2008, 03:55:44 am ---What about other programs using the same information? Being able to get my PVD information into MC would be great, for example, but what would PVD do when MC wrote its version of the information back to the tags?
--- End quote ---
I do not think movie file tagging is widely used or standardised yet (which is why we are having this discussion). As such I think it is very unlikely any tags created by PVD would automatically work with MC. However I believe tagging will be more widely used in the future, and at least a de facto standard will emerge with time.
--- Quote ---I suppose each user would want to maintain their own database, but based on the same store of movies on the server. Nevertheless, would it not make sense to built a "master" database of all movies on the server? Then each user could start with a copy of that, and delete the movies they're not interested in.
--- End quote ---
Master databases worry me. Simple single user programs accessing movies on a file server sounds less complex and mor flexible to me.
--- Quote ---I thought ID3 was for music only
..
saving the information in the movie files removes the risk of the files getting separated.
--- End quote ---
Agree
ID3 was suggested as a format to start from that much of the industry is familiar with.
Incorporating movie tags within movie data files will no doubt be the ultimate standardised solution. The separate file was a simple way of achieving the same functionality with all movie file types without compromising compatibility with movie players or needing to write to large video files. Yes the files would need to be copied together if movie files were moved, but I already do that with subtitled movies. Tags within movie files (.avi .mkv .wm etc) could be progressively added later as resources and tools permit.
rick.ca:
--- Quote ---I do not think movie file tagging is widely used or standardised yet...
--- End quote ---
That seems to be the case. I just spent hours trying to get image tag information into MC—it seems hopeless. I recall abcAVI Tag Editor saves IMDb information in AVI's, but I suspect the tags are the author's creation, and he's just writing them as a block into the file. So maybe the answer is it's easy to write information into AVI's, it won't affect other software that needs to read them, but there's little chance the information could be shared in any way.
--- Quote ---Master databases worry me...
--- End quote ---
I was assuming this would be a one-time thing—just for getting started. I meant "master" only in the sense it would include all movies on the server, and users would start their own database using a copy of it.
I suppose your vacation scenario might be an example of where this functionality is required on an ongoing basis. But I wonder about that too. Wouldn't you just copy your database to the laptop, and then run scan folders for changed paths, pointing to the new file location? Yes, you want 100% accuracy, but in this case, the program only needs to check for changed paths—not new files. If it's trying to match the title directly to the new path while ignoring the filename already recorded, I'd say the code needs to be revised to take the old filename into account. I can't imagine why anyone would move files and change file names and expect PVD to rematch everything all at the same time. Furthermore, even though you can't drag a server with you on vacation, there's no reason not to take your entire database. This would be much easier and faster than rebuilding a new database. PVD will do a good job of telling you what's available to watch, and what you left behind.
--- Quote ---Yes the files would need to be copied together if movie files were moved, but I already do that with subtitled movies.
--- End quote ---
I have no doubt you can do it—you're the one running an industrial network in your home! Other users don't where or how there files are stored. For them, separate files increases the risk of things going wrong. But then they're not likely to be interested in this feature, are they?
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